I don’t think it was bullshit! I wouldn’t let someone I loved die - no matter what, and maybe Paul Wesley feels the same way. But I buy that Stefan would let Elena die in order to honor her choice to have her friend live. And to a certain extent I understand his decision, actually. Even if it’s not the one I would make.
Regardless I certainly didn’t think it was OOC for Stefan.
Sorry, anon, I don’t really understand the rest of your comment, which I think might be because English is not your first language. Feel free to explain further :)
I’m with you anon! Damon is not Dexter. Damon. Is. Not. Dexter.
(Although I do think it’s possible he killed Aaron’s parents and that they could get past that.)
As for feeling enough feelings while his humanity switch was off to bother with revenge… I’m not sure how that works. Elena wasn’t interested in getting revenge on Katherine while she was switched off, but she did exhibit plenty of rage. And Stefan was all about the revenge on Klaus, but in my mind he was semi-switched on at that point…
I do think the switch is less perfect than it is supposed to be. I think it partially numbs and also mutates feelings rather than leaving the vampire free of them in a genuine sense. So I guess I can buy that Damon had his humanity off but still had the urge to kill Whitmores.
Are you making fun of me bnofee? I don’t even care. A DELENA is everything you and my darling best friend Rin are missing out on in life.
I don’t think so, anon. Mostly because Nadia would not have passed as anyone called ‘Maggie’ with that accent. But also it would be too contrived. I’m excited to ‘meet’ Maggie though, if only in flashbacks.
The problem for me, anon, is that either Damon has PTSD or he doesn’t. There are things that would indicate that he does, namely that he has never spoken to anyone about that time in his life and avoids the memory of it at all costs such that he didn’t even put 2 and 2 together when Elena went to WHITMORE college and there was some freaky stuff with VAMPIRES on campus and there was a skeevy DOCTOR and their friend got captured and turned and TORTURED. Damon seemed chilled out about Dr Wes until he saw the blood bag and remembered his number suddenly. It doesn’t make sense that he only just realized what Dr Wes was up to, because, well, he knew what Dr Wes was up to. It was obvious. And when Damon doesn’t add obvious to obvious you know there’s something wrong there.
So I guess what I’m saying is that the only way this whole storyline makes sense is if Damon had actually repressed his time as a Whitmore lab vamp to the point where he didn’t even really remember it until that moment.
But that doesn’t jive with him murdering people about it all this time, does it? There is one way you could argue that it did, which was that Damon would have flashback episodes when confronted with stimulus that reminded him of that time and kill people about it. But then they’d either be random people, or Whitmores who happened to cross his path. What Damon describes to Elena and Aaron is methodical and totally premeditated. He researched this woman. He found out who she was and that she was guardian to another Whitmore who could stay alive to make more. And then he went on a freaking roadtrip to kill her at exactly the time he and Elena were having all the sex and being madly the-whole-world-melts-away in love.
That’s totally implausible on its own. It’s even more implausible when you consider that Damon seemed to not even remember any of the rage he was supposedly acting on. It’s even more implausible when you consider that somehow Damon knew who this woman was and knew that she was guardian to another Whitmore he could keep alive and yet had no idea who this Whitmore was, to the point where he’s like ‘Who’s Aaron?’ and not in a portentous or ironic way. In a way where he had no clue.
This stuff just doesn’t add up to me. And I guess I’ve gotten a little sidetracked because it’s not really the plot holes I’m supposed to be addressing, but the notion that it is out of character for Damon to do this.
Don’t misunderstand me here. Though Damon has come a long way over the 4.5 seasons there is no question that he’s still a killer. He’ll kill where it’s necessary or even where it’s just expedient. He’ll kill innocents if he has to. He’ll kill people who threaten his loved ones for protection. And he’ll kill people who hurt them for revenge if he’s feeling it. 401 showed us that the terror and rage is still in him to the point where he will almost kill someone like Matt, who’s done nothing wrong, just because he can’t control the things he’s feeling in the moment.
But none of that is the same as setting out to kill someone because of things their father or grandfather did that have nothing to do with them.
Look, it may turn out that Aunty Sarah was big into the vamp torture too and therefore Damon is (arguably - seriously you guys, it’s only just arguable, even then) justified in offing her. But that’s not the story we were told in 509. In 509 it was heavily implied that Sarah was just a person who had the misfortune to be a Whitmore - or that either way, Damon had no interest in finding out whether she was actually involved in any of this or not.
That makes this senseless. And Damon is senselessly cruel, or he can be, or he has been historically. There’s no denying that. But it has always been in the heat of the moment - in the thick of some kind of despair. Or with his humanity very much off.
I can buy that S1 Damon who rolled into town and abused Caroline and then tried to kill her when he could just as easily not have done… I can buy that that guy would kill innocent people to work out his issues. But not this Damon, who will never be moral, but who does feel. Who does care. Who does try. He’s above this particular kind of revenge. He’s above killing without purpose OR passion.
And while we’re on that, another plot hole: if Damon was killing Whitmores as recently as a few months ago, then how the hell was he not investigating the actual college where the lab was, realizing there were people doing what the Whitmores once did all over again, and shut them the fuck down? Damon Salvatore would not be more concerned with mindless adherence to his plan that gets nobody anywhere, not even him, certainly not when there was a possibility of exacting the kind of revenge that might make the world a better place for him and the people he loves.
I mean, I know the only reason he ever let Elena go to that college without dealing with this shit well ahead of time is because HE DIDN’T REMEMBER HOW HE GOT HORRIBLY TORTURED THERE AND REALIZE THE SAME MIGHT HAPPEN TO HER. But that’s the problem. This. Makes. No. Sense.
Anyway. I have to say that I disagree with those who think that Damon killing Aunt Sarah in the context he described in 409 isn’t that bad. It’s SO bad to me. It’s way too bad to be something Damon would do these days. And that’s not so much because he killed a woman as because he killed a woman for no other rational reason than to kill her, because it makes him feel better. And he planned it. And he roadtripped it. There was research and gas and a map and probably a freaking overnight bag. And would actually have had to make up a pretty good cover story about it for Elena, given that she would have been side-eyeing him wanting to be apart from her at that particular time for any reason and probably feeling pretty hurt by it.
I have issues with this. First, it makes Damon out to be Dexter Morgan. He’s not Dexter Morgan. What Elena wants does not matter more to him than her safety and so he will kill when she doesn’t want him to (eg. Dr Wes). But killing in and of itself doesn’t matter more to Damon than Elena does. It just doesn’t. And right at the time when Damon is telling her it did is exactly the time it really, really, really wouldn’t.
And I suppose the worst thing for me is that if he did this he lied to Elena. He lied to Elena about something he knows would matter to her - about something that might make her think less of him - something she therefore had a right to know. That is out of character for Damon, in my opinion. He doesn’t play those games with her and I’ll be really upset if the show is having him start.
Look, I’ll write another bajillion words about this when I recap this, but basically I don’t see Damon as a cheater. And this to me is cheating on Elena. Sure, we use that word when it’s sex that’s happening behind someone’s back. But the spirit of it applies here just as much. He did something he knows she would hate - something that would hurt her to know he was capable of - something that would disappoint and shock her - even scare her - something that he knows would put their relationship in jeopardy. And he did it behind her back right when she believed they were as close as two people could get.
It’s gross and tacky and it’s weak and it’s demeaning to Elena and it’s not who Damon is, not in that relationship.
You mentioned the murder is a coping mechanism for Damon. For reasons outlined above, that doesn’t make sense to me. The repression and avoidance have been the coping mechanisms and the repression and avoidance are not compatible with premeditated murders of the kind we’re talking about. But beyond that, I don’t think killing people who haven’t done anything to you is okay. I don’t think it’s defensible in any way - not when your humanity is on.
And Damon’s humanity is certainly on. It’s just that he’s not a moral person and he never was, so whether he’s feeling or not, he’s not going to be a choir boy.
Damon currently is as responsible for his actions as anybody else on this show. And he has exhibited way too much self-control over the past couple of seasons for me to believe that he’s really incapable of not getting in a car and driving all the way to wherever it was and murdering some woman he’s never met.
Damon would never do something unnecessary that would hurt Elena if he could do otherwise. When he snapped Jeremy’s neck it was because he was distraught and lost to himself. If he’d had to go on a roadtrip about it, it would never have happened. Same with his attack on Matt.
There are many ways Damon would and probably will ruin things between him and Elena. This particular way doesn’t work for his character or for the plot, in my opinion.
One last thing. For the record, I don’t see Damon as needing to recover from anything at this point. The writers showed us Stefan with PTSD, having flashbacks and freakouts and needing to learn how to control himself when that happened. Damon is past that stage - if he was ever at it. I’m not saying he’s perfectly in control, but he’s not pathologically out of control either. Getting his humanity on was the hard part for Damon - getting it on and keeping it on. That’s what he had to work through, not trauma from the torture.
The most important thing about 409, to me, was that it wasn’t having his guts torn out and tied up on a daily basis for five years that caused Damon to turn it off. It was turning his back and walking away from his friend that he couldn’t handle. That’s what he knew would send him crazy with pain and self-hate - if he didn’t stop feeling altogether.
So he flipped the switch. And then in season 1 sometime he flipped it back and eventually it stayed on. And yes, I do think he’d be angry and wild enough - damaged enough - that he’d gladly kill Dr Wes and any of his colleagues. And maybe, in the heat of the moment, he’d kill the people they love, too, and maybe he wouldn’t sweat it because he’s Damon and people are small stuff to him unless they’re on his list.
But that? That’s different from this. And I’m going to stop because this has gotten totally out of hand. More in the recap someday - a lot more actually.
Agreed so much, anon. I could write an essay about the sense Damon killing Aunty Sarah doesn’t make, from a plot perspective and from a character perspective. But I’ll save it for the recap.
I will hash all that out when I get to the recap, anon. As much as it was reminiscent of the Damon/Elena kiss, I don’t think the fire place has any particular significance. Could be wrong, though. Honestly, I suspect that the entire Stefan/Kat thing is going to turn out to be the universe pushing them together, rather than them having a genuine connection. I’ll be very disappointed if that’s the case, but there you go.
Ah, thanks anon. Well, I wouldn’t know whether to believe that or not so I’ll just have to try to ignore it unless canon starts pointing in that direction.
I would be VERY surprised if they went there. There are many reasons why, including that it would be super contrived and that if Damon had been behind the accident Grayson’s ring would have brought him back. But the main reason I’d be surprised is because it would ruin Damon/Elena. There would be no coming back from him lying to her about something that crucial to her throughout the whole show’s run. I guess that leaves open the option that Damon was involved accidentally/didn’t realize who was in the car but… that’s not exactly plausible given that he was there and that he knows Stefan saved Elena when her parents drowned…
Nah. I keep thinking about it and there’s just no way. It won’t happen. However, I do have my suspicions about Dr Wes - or if not specifically Dr Wes, some kind of inside job on the Gilberts. Or Enzo, maybe. But not Damon.